She wrote the book on women at work. Now she says it could not be more urgent
Dr. Lois Frankel has spent four decades inside the boardrooms of some of the most powerful companies in the world. As President of Corporate Coaching International and author of the bestselling Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office, she has coached executives at Goldman Sachs, Netflix, McKinsey, and others. With a newly updated edition of her landmark book now available, Frankel is speaking directly to a generation of women she believes has never needed her more.
Why did you bother to update a book from 20 years ago that is still selling well?
When the publisher first approached me about doing a 20-year update, I said no, because I felt as if I’ve pretty much said what I want to say. And then we had a little something in this country called an election. As the new administration came in, I started to see the rights of women being eroded left and right, and I thought, I need to write this book because I need to reach a new generation of women, and provide tools so that they could advocate for themselves in a world where no one’s advocating for them.
You’ve said this administration is to blame for the biggest erosion of women’s rights in a generation. Isn’t that an exaggeration?
No. I’ve worked in human resources, I’ve worked in DEI, I’ve worked in Equal Employment Opportunity over 40 years. I have never seen women go this far back. Companies are being punished if they have DEI programs. We have a military where women and people of color are being told they don’t really belong here, or they’re not getting promotions. We’ve got Mark Zuckerberg, who says leadership has become too soft, which is a dog whistle for there’s too many women. When you ask, isn’t it an exaggeration? No.
What’s different about this updated edition?
About 70% is new material. I start off with a chapter called Rookie Mistakes. I had not had a chapter like that in any of my other books. Someone connected with me on LinkedIn said, “I think you need something for people who are just entering the workforce, because they make a lot of mistakes.”
Another thing I’ve significantly changed is being different in the workplace. When I wrote it 20 years ago, I wasn’t courageous enough to speak truth to power about how hard it is to be different in the workplace, whether you’re a woman, a person of color, differently abled. There are hurdles placed in certain lanes that we have to jump over.
I also have a whole chapter on self-care. Twenty years ago, nobody was talking about self-care. Now what we know is that self-care complements hard work. It enables us to sustain our energy and our focus.
What have you seen in the past 14 months that makes this book particularly important for women today?
Women needing tools to stand up to a political environment that is doing everything it can to push them back. A political system is designed to perpetuate itself. We live in a white male system, and it is designed to perpetuate itself. As we see more white males taking over, they are doing things to bring the system back into what they consider equilibrium, because women actually got too powerful.
The number one question everybody always asks me is, “are you saying you can’t be nice and be successful?” Nothing is further from the truth. You have to be nice to be successful. Nice is an essential component, but you also need other skills. I liken it to a prizefighter. A prizefighter could have a great left jab, but they have no right uppercut. They’re not going to win many bouts. Our left jab is niceness. We have to add in our voices and learn how to say things in a way that gets results.
I always say the challenge for women is telling people to go to hell so they look forward to the trip. What most women are afraid of is getting called that dreaded B-word. The tools I give you will enable you to communicate and advocate for yourself in a way that no one should be calling you that. And if they do, they’re gaslighting you.
Why should a company even care about ensuring women are in leadership positions?
All the research shows that companies with more women in leadership roles have a greater return on investment than those with fewer. There is data that shows women are an economic asset, not a liability.
You’ve said the world would be a better place with more women in positions of power. Isn’t that a stretch?
No. When you have all white men at a table making decisions, you only have one perspective. You put women at a table, there’s a different perspective. You put people of color, now you have another perspective. There is a richness in diversity that helps people make better decisions.
There’s a book called Gather the Women, Save the World by Jean Shinoda Bolen. She says women are what’s necessary to get beyond poverty and war and corporate greed, because we have a different sensibility. I am not saying we are better than men. I am just saying we see the world differently. I feel as if, if we had more women in the room, we would not be at war with Iran.
For someone who read the first edition, why should they pick up this updated version?
If you have not achieved the goals that you dream of achieving, if you feel as if you’re being overlooked, if you haven’t gotten the promotion that you want or the raise that you deserve, you’re going to find tools in this book that are going to help you achieve your goals. This is not a book about rhetoric. We all know something’s wrong with the system. What I have to tell you is how do you work within it and achieve your goals and maintain your true, authentic self. That’s why you should buy this book.
Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office is available now wherever books are sold. Visit drloisfrankel.com to learn more.